Living in NYC isn't cheap, and unlike other cities, the housing quality is old and terrible.
For a tiny studio in a shabby 100 year old prewar walkup tenement building in Manhattan, you're looking at a minimum of $2,000/month. Most people pay $1,400+/month to live in old converted apartments (ie. putting up a wall to turn the living room into another bedroom) with roommates, and often the bedrooms are too small to even have room for a desk, and the window faces directly into another building (if there even is a window). In these buildings you're not going to have AC (meaning you need to buy a window AC unit), a dishwasher, trash compactor, elevator, and all the other luxuries we take for granted anywhere else in the modern world. I spent 3 years in one of these buildings, and the apartment was perpetually too hot (even in the winter), and there was nothing I could do because heat in the unit was not controllable. Apparently this is fairly normal in these buildings.
If you want to live anywhere nice and somewhat modern that isn't a dump, you're looking at a minimum of $3,000/month for a studio, $4,000/month for a 1BR, etc.
And want to buy a place? You're looking at a minimum of $500k for any studio that isn't a total piece of crap, and they're going to want a 20% down payment. And who wants to raise a family in a studio?
I live in a 3BR which is currently around $2.5k/month in beautiful Brooklyn just minutes from the A, C, and G trains. Next week I'll hear back as to whether or not I also have a $1k/mo studio with yard in a well-kept brownstone at the belt of Morningside Park. Most of my friends with studios pay around $1.5k to be in either newly renovated units in not-so-hot areas (upper reaches of Harlem for example) or tiny (200 sq ft) and run down units in more hot areas such as the East Village. None of these are rent controlled or stabilized. Your numbers are the worst case– maybe what you should budget for coming from out of town and looking for a first place, but certainly not the norm if you're looking on a budget. A quick search just now shows at least a couple good listings in the $2400-2900 range for 2BR in the East Village. In my opinion the two big takeaways from these discussions are that (1) New York is what you make of it and (2) New York, due in no small part to its transit system, is bigger than just downtown or uptown Manhattan. I've never had the amenities you listed even growing up so it's likely I don't appreciate them in the same way but there's plenty of other things the city offers to make up for it.
You're minutes from the A,C, and G, but how long is your commute to Manhattan (and where in Manhattan)? How reliable are those trains (eg. on the weekends)? Is it safe at night? Mind if I ask where in Brooklyn? (I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just genuinely curious because I'm actually looking for a place right now)
Sure you can live in Harlem for cheap, but you're a bit removed and it doesn't exactly feel safe. These days it's gotten better, but I still wouldn't recommend a woman walk alone there at night. Living in what feels like a giant housing project isn't exactly what I consider the desirable "Manhattan" experience.
Mind linking me some of those good listings? I spent the last 3 years in the East Village, most apartments there in that price range are subpar by modern day standards. They're going to be obviously converted apartments with absurdly small bedrooms, no living room area, odd layouts, broker's fees (10-15% of the first year's rent), 5th floor walkups, Avenue C, etc. I'm not saying that deals don't exist, but they are very hard to come by.
I'm not too familiar with deep Brooklyn, but I know you can find alright studios there for $1,200/person. I'm just not sure if the tradeoff of increased commute and reduced safety due to living amongst poverty is worth it. But I'd love to be shown otherwise.
I'm in the UK and my image of NY is from the Netflix "Daredevil" show.
It amazes me the times I've seen one of the characters, Karen Page (attractive blonde white woman) just part company with another character at night and walk home. The streets look almost deserted except the occaisonal walker and cab. I thought it might be just fiction but another part of me thought that NY might be safer given the strictness of the police, zero-tolerance policy and increasing gentrification.
Probably they're living near the Hoyt-Schemerhorn station in downtown Brooklyn. The A/C are good, reliable trains that offer a quick commute to a large number of jobs in Lower Manhattan. And it's absolutely in a safe neighborhood.
As for your search, you need to include apartments with broker fees. That's just a reality of the real estate market in NYC. There are many cases where paying the fee is worthwhile.
Whats wrong with a walk up? Stairs certainly aren't unique to NYC. Also what is wrong with old? . Pre-war buildings are actually more desirable as pre-war buildings spared little expenses with both construction and materials. In a pre-war building you will have plaster walls and poured-concrete floors which means much less noise or hearing your neighbor. This is opposed to post war in which you will have sheetrock walls. Pre-war buildings will also get you character like high ceilings, stamped tin ceilings, plate rails, tiled hallways, wood reliefs. Buying an AC unit isn't a big deal, you buy it and have it for 10 years.
Its completely possible to live in a one bedroom that is not a dump for less than $4k a month. There is no absolute minimum as you state. Lastly, "old" does not necessarily imply bad or dumpy. You are correct if you want to live in a brand new one bedroom with all "mod cons" - heated floors, stainless steel appliances, central AC, an Amazon locker etc., it is going to cost you significantly more. But you can also get that experience as you imply just about everywhere else in the world. These places also tend to have less in the way of character. Some people don't want that.
Walkups are fine if you're on the first three floors. I spent 3 years in 5th floor walkups (East Village, Upper West Side, Morningside Heights). You never get used to that.
I guess age itself isn't the issue, it's the quality of the unit, and most old pre-war walkup units have terrible quality by modern standards. Those cool old buildings with "character" you speak of - with the super high ceilings and all that - you're not going to find those in Manhattan (and if you do, they are absurdly expensive). Most of the old buildings in Manhattan are former tenement buildings. None of the 3 walkups I lived in had high ceilings or any of those charms. They were just small, perpetually dirty, had tiny windows facing directly into other buildings, nasty bathrooms, disgusting building common areas, etc. I've lived in prewar and modern buildings, and can't attest to any noise insulation advantages in prewar. If living in a tenement like a poor immigrant from 100 years ago is considered having "character", then I don't want character.
Go outside of NYC, and you realize that most people live in modern buildings with central air and large windows. In NYC, those are a luxury.
Personally the thing I like most about newer buildings are the large floor-to-ceiling windows. The sparse tiny windows in prewar buildings are just depressing (though the prewar unit I lived at in the Upper West Side did have nice windows).
So after I let my 3 year lease expire, I subletted this small but amazing place in Gramercy for one month - 16th floor, doorman, balcony, laundry in basement - for $1,900 all-in (they're paying $2,125/person + utilities, 1BR converted into 2BR, but still a living room area). Didn't want to leave, but had no choice due to the tenant returning. (if you want to see clips of it, I have a Youtube channel in my profile where I post stupid videos)
Now I'm subletting a modern condo (built in 2008) in Greenpoint, Brooklyn for $60/night that looks like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fmxqof9kfivrpq2/2016-09-02%2009.16... . 2 bedroom 2 bathroom, just under 1,000 square feet. It's by far the most beautiful apartment I've ever stayed at, but unfortunately my bedroom doesn't have a usable desk - which I've now come to realize is absolutely mandatory. Thus I'm now searching for another sublet under $70/night with a nice desk in the bedroom - and if it's in deep Brooklyn, it better be in a modern renovated apartment. This is actually not as easy to find as I thought.
The main reason I'm subletting is because I want to try out this digital nomad thing, and thus want the flexibility of not being tied down to a lease.
My wife and I live in an enormous 2-bedroom a block from four subway lines, in Long Island City. We pay $2,000/month for that (with various amenities included). A friend of ours who lives a block away with another couple pays $3,000/month for a house with an enormous backyard. And we're not outliers by any means. My point being, if you live in Brooklyn or Queens, and you're willing to do a bit of looking, you can find a perfectly suitable place for far less than the price points you mentioned.
What sort of amenities are included? Is this a walkup?
How did you find your deal, and mind if I ask what building you're in (if it's a high-rise)? I'm actually looking into that area right now, and haven't been able to find any deals like that.
It's a walkup in a pre-war building, not a high-rise. We're on 46th road; we found it through a friend who was giving the place up (it seems like that's a common theme for the better apartments people land). The problem with LIC right now is that those high-rise luxury condos along the water are dominating the rental discussion in the neighborhood; there are definitely deals to be found on the "landward" side of Vernon Blvd, but the closer you get to the water, the worse the rent gets.
My wife and I say that, if we have to move, we'll go deeper along the 7 line into Queens or up into Astoria. That's where the best rent-to-space-ratio seems to be at the moment; LIC still has some good ones, but they're further and fewer between as rich people realize how close we are to Manhattan and move in greater numbers.
Our amenities are very much off-the-books. Nothing like a doorman or in-house gym. We have a super who does everything, a couple of laundry machines in basement, etc. :)
I think its pretty funny that the word 'enormous' is actually being applied to a two-bedroom.
Outside of the cities and expensive suburbs, most people get a 3 bedroom house at a minimum, and people paying $2000 a month will get a 4 or 5 bedroom.
For a tiny studio in a shabby 100 year old prewar walkup tenement building in Manhattan, you're looking at a minimum of $2,000/month. Most people pay $1,400+/month to live in old converted apartments (ie. putting up a wall to turn the living room into another bedroom) with roommates, and often the bedrooms are too small to even have room for a desk, and the window faces directly into another building (if there even is a window). In these buildings you're not going to have AC (meaning you need to buy a window AC unit), a dishwasher, trash compactor, elevator, and all the other luxuries we take for granted anywhere else in the modern world. I spent 3 years in one of these buildings, and the apartment was perpetually too hot (even in the winter), and there was nothing I could do because heat in the unit was not controllable. Apparently this is fairly normal in these buildings.
If you want to live anywhere nice and somewhat modern that isn't a dump, you're looking at a minimum of $3,000/month for a studio, $4,000/month for a 1BR, etc.
And want to buy a place? You're looking at a minimum of $500k for any studio that isn't a total piece of crap, and they're going to want a 20% down payment. And who wants to raise a family in a studio?