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> Jared Diamond speculates various reasons for why the people there didn't develop into a post-hunter-gatherer civilization (or much beyond that). While much of his work has been disputed

So it would be a waste of time to read Guns Germs and Steel, since it is mostly disputed? What would be a good alternative then?



He makes some interesting observations, but stretches some of the conclusions quite a bit. Basically suffers from a lot of confirmation bias. Tends to ignore or overlook contradictory evidence.


Definitely agree with that. Especially about the domestication large fauna in North America. How can you completely ignore the buffalo?


He answers some questions here, also about bison domestication: http://jareddiamond.org/Jared_Diamond/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel...

(according to this link I just googled, American buffalos are actually bisons http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bison_vs_Buffalo )


I read it, and it seems like crap. "When I ask American readers and animal handlers familiar with bison the possible reasons for bison non-domestication, they mention two factors: unpredictable dangerous disposition, such that bison ranchers remain wary of them; and ability to jump fences, such they could not be penned until modern strong high fences became available."

First off, Bulls can definitely have nasty dispositions, and secondly they can definitely jump fences. I've personally seen a bull clear a 8 foot fence.

thanks for providing that though!


I don't know anything about bisons. Are they domesticated these days?

So you would say they would have been eligible for domestication and native Americans failed to do so for some unknown reason?


I think you're making much the same mistake Diamond does, assuming that domestication is inevitable, and that if it doesn't happen, somebody "failed".


Well they failed by becoming subjugated by the European settlers, dying from diseases by the millions. That's what the book is about. I don't see a way to paint that in lovely colors? What about that isn't "failure"?

The argument here was that Diamond's theory is wrong because the native Americans could have domesticated the bisons after all. The claim that they are too difficult to tame is dismissed as "crap". Then it seems to me why they were not being domesticated needs another explanation (if the one from Diamond is not good enough). Just random chance?


They are farmed. You can buy bison meat at any grocery store here (it's delicious!). So yes.' There are about 200 thousand bison on 2000 farms in Canada alone.


No, I think it's still worth reading. It's just widely disputed.

/r/AskHistorians has an entire section devoted to the book, so it's had an impact

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/historians_views...


Hm, I followed the first few links on that page and I remain unconvinced. It's been a long time since I read the book, but I remember points being addressed that the comments there claim are not being addressed. And I think sometimes they missed the point completely.

Anyway - best everybody make up their own mind, and remember that EVERYBODY has an agenda. Even the good people on reddit. Specifically, perhaps historians don't like it if somebody advances on their territory with a different approach (combining different disciplines). Their agenda is to push their methodology so that they get more funding for their research.


No it wouldn't, GG&S is the perfect intro to this genre of books. Another good one is Collapse by Joseph Tainter.


"Collapse" is also by Jared Diamond. You're thinking of "The Collapse of Complex Societies" (and yes, it is good).


I usually hear it compared to 1491, which I think is much better regarded. (I loved it. I haven't read Guns Germs and Steel.)


It's also really important to remember you're reading a book and not having Truth distilled into your brain. 1421 was another fun read, but the author wrote a third book saying that, while he still thinks China traveled to the New World in 1421, he now thinks the Atlanteans made an earlier journey.




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